Are you familiar with the hunter/jumper rule changes that will go into effect Dec. 1 for the 2022 show year?
There is a long list of them, but here are some of the most important to know:
Find out before your hunter class how you will jog after you jump. A show can hold a jog in the traditional way, when you run in with your horse after your number is called, or it can use the 2020 Covid-inspired Presidential Modification of trotting a circle on a loose rein at the end of each over-fences performance.
The changes for hunters also include an expansion of offerings, with low adult amateur hunter and low children’s hunter horse added to the rated sections.
In the jumpers, management will be allowed to change the table under which a class offering less than $25,00 is run for a variety of reasons, including bad weather or encroaching darkness.
There is no longer an amateur-owner jumper section, only an amateur jumper division, though an amateur-owner high-score award will be offered in the Horse of the Year ranks. Oh, and if you have a mule, it is now allowed to compete in U.S. Equestrian Federation jumper classes.
One more thing–after much discussion over the years, it has been decided that earbuds and earphones cannot be worn in schooling or exercise areas.
Show jumping will no longer be part of the modern pentathlon lineup following the Paris Olympics in 2024, the International Modern Pentathlon Union has announced.
The sport received an unwelcome spotlight in Tokyo after a horse refused with a German rider who had been leading the competition to that point. She whipped the horse and burst into tears, a moment memorialized in a photo that made headlines around the world. Her mount was punched by her coach, who was disciplined by being sent home.
In a letter to athletes, the pentathlon union explained the decision, stating, “We would be making a mistake if we were to take our place in the Olympic programme for granted past Paris 2024. It is not granted for us, it is not granted for anybody.
“We really need to make sure that in that new environment, with all of these new sports (such as skateboarding) that have demonstrated strength and a lot of traction with people and media, we have to make sure that our sport if (sic) flawless.”
The organization’s executive board held a secret meeting this week in which it was decided to remove horseback riding from the program. Riding’s replacement sport has yet to be decided, but cycling is under consideration.
A riding working group had been set up to explore whether the equestrian element should be continued in the format that also includes shooting, running, swimming and fencing, which debuted at the 1912 Olympics. There have been innovations since, including running all the sports in a 90-minute broadcast-friendly format, rather than over a period of days.
Modern pentathlon participants are assigned a horse and have just 20 minutes before competing in the jumping. It’s a big ask for athletes who are not accomplished riders. The five-discipline event began as a military competition, with women taking part for the first time in 2000. It has not been among the more popular events to watch for viewers of the Games, which endangers its continuing inclusion.
However, more than 650 pentathletes wrote a letter expressing no confidence in the pentathlon organization’s president and board, asking for their resignations, while at the same time they pressed to keep riding in the pentathlon to save the integrity of the sport. The board is reported already to have decided on an alternate sport to replace riding, but if so, it was done without promised consultation with the athletes.
Meanwhile, people for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) called for all equestrian disciplines to be dropped from the Olympics, not just the riding phase of modern pentathlon. The FEI (International Equestrian Federation), which is the governing body for the Olympic disciplines of dressage, eventing and grand prix-level show jumping, does not regulate pentathlon.
“Just as the Olympics evolved to include sports that are of current interest, like skateboarding, surfing, and sport climbing, in a world that increasingly refuses to accept abuse in any form, it’s time to remove sports that are no longer supported by the public,” PETA’s senior vice-president of the equine matters department, Kathy Guillermo, wrote to International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach.
There is no comparison between riding in the pentathlon and the Olympic equestrian sports, which are run at the highest standard of athleticism and care for the horse, most of which have been with their riders for many years.
Carriage drivers will have their own fun fall outing at the Horse Park of New Jersey with the debut of the Reindeer Run Dec. 5. The new event will be a joint venture between the park and the Monmouth County Hunt.
In the past, the park’s Nov. 21 Turkey Trot, run in conjunction with the Eastern States Dressage and Combined Training Association, was open to both riders and drivers. That got a little complicated and limited opportunities for the drivers, however.
Diane Sigafoos, a Horse Park board member who is organizing the Reindeer Run with another park trustee, Christine Odegaard, explained some riders in the Turkey Trot were concerned their horses could be spooked by the carriages. Because of that, laying out separate routes that never crossed each other for the two groups got complicated, and limited the length of the drivers’ trails.
The solution suddenly became obvious: “Why don’t we just make it a different day?”
Christine, who, like Diane, is also a member of the Monmouth County Hunt, is a driver who knows how to set up the cones and obstacle test that will be available to the Reindeer Run drivers at no additional cost. The Reindeer Run, which will offer a special prize for the best turnout with a Christmas theme, has a discount for drivers who enter by Dec. 1.
The organizers are reaching out to local organizations such as Future Farmers of America, 4-H and Pony Club for fund raising, if they want to sell something, such as poinsettias or wreaths at the event.
Entries are already coming in for the new event.
“There’s a lot of buzz,” said Diane.
“The carriage people are looking for something to do, and that’s another reason that we wanted to try to do something for them,” she commented.To enter, go to this link on the Horse Park website.
Show jumping will be dropped from the modern pentathlon lineup after the Paris Olympics in 2024, according to several media accounts.
The sport received an unwelcome spotlight in Tokyo after a horse refused with a German rider who had been leading the competition to that point. She whipped the horse and burst into tears, a moment memorialized in a photo that made headlines around the world. Her mount was punched by her coach, who was disciplined by being sent home.
The International Modern Pentathlon Union Executive Board held a secret meeting this week in which it was decided to remove horseback riding from the program, the media outlets that ran the story stated. The board said it will issue a press release tomorrow, but did not give details. The word is that cycling could replace riding.
A riding working group had been set up to explore whether the equestrian element should be continued in the format that also includes shooting, running, swimming and fencing. The panel’s recommendations originally were scheduled to be announced during an executive board meeting at the end of this month.
Modern pentathlon participants are assigned a horse and have just 20 minutes before competing in the jumping. It’s a big ask for athletes who are not accomplished riders. The five-discipline event was introduced to the Games in 1912 as a military competition, with women taking part for the first time in 2000. It has not among the more popular events to watch among viewers of the Games.
Meanwhile, people for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) called for all equestrian disciplines to be dropped from the Olympics, not just the riding phase of modern pentathlon. The FEI (International Equestrian Federation), which is the governing body for the Olympic disciplines of dressage, eventing and grand prix-level show jumping, does not regulate pentathlon.
“Just as the Olympics evolved to include sports that are of current interest, like skateboarding, surfing, and sport climbing, in a world that increasingly refuses to accept abuse in any form, it’s time to remove sports that are no longer supported by the public,” PETA’s senior vice-president of the equine matters department, Kathy Guillermo, wrote to International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach.
With two important competitions separated by 317 miles this weekend, Beacon Hill Show Stable’s crew handled the distance and came up a winner at both the National in Lexington, Ky., and the Washington International in Tryon, N.C.
The Colts Neck, N.J., stable’s team worked with 13-year-old Rylynn Conway of Fair Haven in the Hamel Foundation National Horse Show 3’3” Equitation Championship today, and yesterday coached 18-year-old Dominic Gibbs to the title in the WIHS Equitation Finals, his last competition as a junior.
Head trainer Stacia Klein Madden was with Dominic through three phases of competition, while Heather Senia Williams and Lydia Ulrich were ringside for the Hamel, which drew 177 contenders. The Washington was the only equitation championship on its weekend until 2018 when, coincidentally, Beacon Hill-trained Elli Yeager won there while Dominic was victorious in the inaugural Hamel.
Interestingly, Stacia recalled, several judges who watched Dominic in the Hamel said they hadn’t seen any teen ride the way he did since Conrad Homfeld was in the equitation ranks more than half a century ago. Conrad became an Olympic team gold and individual silver medalist, among other honors, and there are high hopes for Dominic’s future in the same vein.
It’s not surprising, considering Dominic’s considerable achievements since the Hamel (victory in the ASPCA Maclay last year and good placings in the Platinum Performance/USEF Talent Search and the Dover Saddlery/USEF Medal Finals) that Stacia believes the 3-3 “seems to have really taken off as a division, creating a nice introduction for the 3-6 equitation,” the height at which the Medal and Maclay are contested.
Dominic Gibbs on Cent 15. (Photo by Shawn McMillen)
Heather recalled how she felt in 2018, when she had to work the Hamel and couldn’t be at Washington.
“I’ll go this time,” she told Stacia, “but I really love Washington, so I don’t want to have to go every year.”
And then, she said of the Hamel, “I enjoyed it so much I’ve been coming back ever since.”
She also noted that as Beacon Hill’s business has gotten bigger, “There’s more weeks than not that we’re sort of separated and in different places.”
Rylynn, an eighth-grader who attends the U.S. Performance Academy on line, was aboard Crossbow, her first horse, who she said, “has taught me everything. He’s been perfect for me. I love him so much.”
She is the niece of Michelle and Christine Conway, once familiar names on the show circuit who trained with Stacia and in the hunters with the late Leo Conroy, a co-manager of the National until his death in 2015.
The Hamel has become both more popular and more testing since its inception.
Today, Heather pointed out, “A lot of difficult questions were asked. Do-able but difficult.”
Rylynn was geared up to handle them.
“All week, she’s had a cool, calm confidence about her. And the horse was performing great. She seemed super confident. So I had a good feeling about today,” said Heather.
Rylynn Conway after winning the Hamel championship with trainers Heather Williams (holding cooler) and Lydia Ulrich, as well as groom Felipe Martinez. (Libby Greene photo)
The trainer, who won the World Champion Hunter Rider Developing Pro Challenge at the Capital Challenge, characterized Rylnn as “a great student. She’s very intellectual, and she also has good feel. So it’s a great combination when you have a rider who’s a super good student and really sticks to the plan and then has natural feel on top of it.”
Stacia noted Rylynn is “a fierce competitor, deadly accurate and works very hard.”
Speaking about the Washington class, Stacia said, “To me, the win was more about Dominic just really having such unbelievable goals and composure. All along, he’s always wanted to develop his horse and develop his riding. We’ve worked together to have goals that weren’t based necessarily around results.”
But he’s gotten plenty of good results, though the Washington carried “a whole other level of added stress,” Stacia said, because it was his last junior class on Cent 15, a “special” horse he developed.
“He’s so easily adaptable,” she observed about Dominic.
“He’s learned it’s consistency that we’re after.”
Dominic was third in the hunter phase of the Washington, but didn’t get distracted by that, and went on to win the jumper phase. And then he aced it when he had to change horses in the final segment. The native of Colorado has had a lot of experience with catch riding, which will stand him in good stead as he pursues his equestrian ambitions. He’s taking a year off before going to the University of Miami and will work as a professional with Katie and Henri Prudent at Plain Bay Farm, where he gets his jumper training.
Unlike many horses who are sold when their riders age out of the equitation, Cent “is a Gibbs family member,” as Stacia put it and next year will be ridden by Dominic’s younger sister, Jordan.
Dominic noted that the “mental game has always been a really big thing for me. Having done the equitation for a few years now, knowing what the finals season is like, and having that under my belt was a really good thing coming into my last junior season. Knowing my horse, trusting my training, and trying to deliver my best rounds were really big thoughts in my head this week.”
Why not donate your used gear for the horse, rider or the barn to Mane Stream at 83 Old Turnpike Road just outside the center of Oldwick? It is having a tack sale Nov. 7 from 8 a.m.-4 p.m.
In addition to new or used bridles, saddles, blankets and tack boxes, as well as outgrown boots, breeches and jackets, horse-related models and knick-knacks will be accepted. All donations may be dropped off or donors may call to schedule a pick-up. For more information, contact Jen at 908-439-9636 or jen@manestreamnj.org.
Mane Stream’s mission to improve the quality of life for individuals with physical, developmental, emotional, and medical challenges through a diverse program of equine assisted activities, therapy services, and educational initiatives.
In her equitation championship debut, Ella Witt of Califon won the U.S. Hunter Jumper Association 3’3’ Hunter Seat Medal Final East last Saturday aboard Stakkair, owned by Redfield Farm.
But only a few days later on the horse show roller coaster, with its steep highs and deep lows, the gelding was being vetted for sale–just as Ella had to get ready for the National Horse Show in Kentucky.
“Life as a catch rider,” sympathized Redfield’s owner, Emil Spadone.
“If it was my own horse, I’d make them (the buyers) wait a week. But it’s not my own horse and she understands I can’t do that to a client, I can’t risk another week. What if something goes wrong?”
Ella in action at the championship. (Photo by Ann Gittins Photography)
As Emil looked for a mount that could go to Lexington with Ella, she was more grateful than sad about Stakkair, saying she was “so lucky to have had the opportunity to ride him, he’s a special horse.”
She cherishes a magical victory that was part of an incredible week for Redfield, as Cassandra Kahle won the $100,000 Forrester Farm Equipment Grand Prix at the Pennsylvania National Horse show with the farm’s own Selle Francais, the 18-year-old Pyrenes de Louzes..
It was, as Emil said, “icing on the cake” because she also was aboard the Dutchbred stallion Corragio for victory in the 3-3 Green HunterStake and the Pennsylvania National Horse Show’s 3-3 Perpetual Trophy. Corragio is standing at stud for Redfield, so he collected a nice addition to his list of achievements. Pyrenes’ groom, Oscar Trevizo, also was a winner, getting recognition from the Grooms Award Ltd.
“Right now we’re flying high,” said Emil of the wins that were hundreds of miles apart, from Harrisburg, Pa., to West Springfield, Mass.
Ella came to Emil via Amanda Lyerly, who had been training her, but lessons at Amanda’s stable involved a six and one-half hour drive to Ohio. It worked when Ella was doing virtual classes from the Marymount School in New York during the pandemic, but the long trip meant she couldn’t get in enough riding after in-person classes resumed.
Emil’s farm is five minutes from Ella’s New Jersey home. Amanda suggested that might be a better fit, and it was. Ella got along well with the other teens at Redfield and began working with trainer Luke Olsen.
“I feel like she’s found a bit of a home with us,” said Emil.
Ella Witt with trainer Luke Olsen and USHJA President Mary Knowlton. (Photo by Ann Gittins Photography)
Ella had junior hunter experience, but was just starting equitation, as was Stakkair, a former jumper.
She was training for the 3’6” classes. But when Luke realized the 15-year-old (she’s 14 show age) had three more years to compete as a junior, he thought it made sense to step back and give her experience in the 3-3 championships, which have multiplied in recent years.
The only problem was that when he discussed it with the Redfield team and the decision was made at the end of July for Ella to focus on the 3-3 medals, there was just a week left to qualify for the USHJA class. But she did it.
Luke worked with her intensively for six weeks “and set me up for success,” as Ella put it.
“I’m very reserved and don’t ever go in the ring thinking I’m going to win,” said Ella.
“It’s always a shock when I do well, especially since this is my first year doing equitation and my first final,” she said of the competition at the New England Equitation Championships.
“I didn’t really have any expectations, so this was definitely a dream come true. It’s a good boost for my confidence.”
Ella added, “The whole team at Redfield, I really owe them a lot. They’re really an amazing team. It’s a lot of effort that goes into it and I’m lucky to be a part of that.”
Emil saw a natural talent in Ella and “pushed her a bit to do the equitation.”
Luke has an eclectic background, which includes handling special events for Inglenook Winery in Napa Calif., and a job with Soul Cycle. He added credentials to his equestrian resume during a stint with Susie Schoellkopf and Jen Alfano at SBS Farms in Buffalo.
Luke began working Emil in the summer of 2020, saying “he gives me a ton of opportunities. I love working with the kids, I obsess over equitation. It’s something I’m super, super passionate about and study and watch the other trainers.”
When he met Ella, he said, “Wow, this kid can ride.” He characterized her as “very, very natural and very, very calm. When it comes to finding the jumps, she’s a laser. As long as she knows the course, she’s on it.”
At the ingate, he tells her, “You’re cool as a cucumber; you gotta have the eye of the tiger.”
Cassandra characterized her victory on her first grand prix horse, who she’s been riding since 2016, as “pretty surreal.”
Cassandra Kahle and Pyranes de Louzes. (Photo by Andrew Ryback Photography)
She noted,.“I’m very dedicated to the sport. I love it. I do it every day, so it’s a lot of ups and downs, a lot of long days. To have a day like this come together makes it all worth it. This is such a special show. They brought the crowd, and I think the whole atmosphere just makes it that much more surreal.”
Despite his age Pyranes de Louzes “is sound and he seems to love his job,” said Emil.
“He’s going to Florida as a 19-year-old and we’re planning on showing. When he’s done showing, he stays with us to retire in a field and have plenty of carrots.”
John Franzreb, the legendary ringmaster who died in May, was inducted into the Washington International Horse Show Hall of Fame October 30. Here is the video tribute:
Washington International President Vicki Lowell noted that since John joined WIHS in 2007, he had been “an integral part of the Washington family. He was a genial presence who always brought his wonderful style, smile and pomp and circumstance to the opening of each class and the presentation of awards. Start to finish, he was all class, warmth and kindness.”
Vicki cited his long and varied career with horses. John rode as a junior, and then served as ringmaster, steward, and manager at major horse shows throughout the country.
For more than 40 years, his family farm, Clove Lake Stables on Staten Island, was home to more than 100 horses and served aspiring riders of all ages. His family’s horses and carriages were regular participants in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade.
Beyond horses, he gave back to his Staten Island community, working with the Boy Scouts and the Red Cross. He sounded the bugle at the annual Groundhog Day Ceremony at the Staten Island Zoo.
Created in 1997, the WIHS Hall of Fame comprises some of the great names in equestrian sport who excelled at Washington including William C. Steinkraus, Rodney Jenkins, Joe Fargis and Kathy Kusner.
The induction ceremony: Washington International President Vicki Lowell, Steve Serafin, Judith Franzreb and Steve Rector. (Photo by Kaleigh Collett)
This honor comes with a video tribute, a featured article in the WIHS Official Souvenir Program, inclusion in the WIHS Hall of Fame on wihs.org, and an inscription on the Hall of Fame Trophy. John’s wife, Judith, was on hand for the induction ceremony. For more about the Hall of Fame, click here .
Gio, the plucky chestnut Great Britain’s dressage superstar Charlotte Dujardin rode to team and individual dressage bronze medals at the Tokyo Olympics, will now have a teenager in the saddle.
According to Horse & Hound, Pumpkin, as he is known, has been sold to Annabella Pidgley, 16, whose late father, Tony, was a big supporter of equestrian sport in Britain before his death last year. Pumpkin, a 10-year-old son of Apache, was spotted five years ago by Charlotte in a California clinic.
Charlotte and Pumpkin competing in the Tokyo Games.
“It is always such a hard thing to let go of animals that we see as our family,” Charlotte is quoted as saying, but she noted it is a fact of life that sales must sometimes be made in order to keep going. She owned the Dutchbred gelding with her mentor, Carl Hester, and Renai Hart. After the Olympics, she rode Pumpkin to team silver and individual bronze at the European Dressage Championships.
Annabella, who trains with Charlotte and Danish star Cathrine Dufour, won double individual silver at the junior European Championships this year on Sultan Des Paluds.
“Annabella is one of the most promising riders in our country, and works so hard to develop herself and her horses, whilst giving them nothing but five star care,”said Charlotte, who is glad that her training gig with Annabella will keep Pumpkin in her life
Annabella commented: “To say this is a huge privilege for me is an understatement, and I know this is such an honor for me to take the reins of such an iconic little horse. I can only say that under the training of both Cathrine Dufour and Charlotte, I will work every day to do my best by him, bond with him and keep him in the manner he is used to.”
The re-do of the American eventing calendar was “a daunting task” for the U.S. Equestrian Federation’s eventing bid review group, according to USEF Eventing Sport Committee Chairman Mike Huber.
The reorganization left the Jersey Fresh International without the FEI (international) 4-star and 3-star Long and 4-star Short sections from 2023 through 2027. Although the 2022 edition of the event could have been held with those divisions, sponsors understandably didn’t want to back a competition that would not be continuing. (For more information, see this link)
Explaining the work of the bid review group, headed by Olympic cross-country course designer Derek di Grazia, Mike noted the calendar had been “a little bit of a free-for-all” for years. He mentioned that the late Roger Haller (whose family founded the Essex Horse Trials) was one of the first people to recognize the situation and took a look at solving it.
Mike Huber, head of the USEF Eventing Sport Committee chairman.
“There had to be some sort of a master plan. That’s what this project was meant to do, to try to have some control over what was happening and have a process not just for events that were already there, but for new events to have an opportunity and maybe have big backing on it where it would improve the sport all around,” Mike said.
He mentioned there was a plan “that the competitions all would be in a flow chart that made it best for high performance (riders) to prepare themselves; the Shorts to prepare for the Longs, the Longs preparing for the qualification to go the following year to a 5-star
“When you had a calendar that had been in place for a long time without much real disruption or correction, you then see yourself one day looking and saying. `Wow, these (divisions) aren’t really where we want them to be and at the time we want them to be.’ I hope we got it right. People worked very hard on this.
“I feel initially for some it will be painful and maybe for others, there will be an adjustment having to work toward a certain weekend. The whole idea was to make a better calendar for all. I feel badly for any event that didn’t get what they were hoping for. It was a difficult decision and we were looking to make the best caliber we could come up with,” added Mike, a double gold medalist at the 1987 Pan American Games and veteran of two World Equestrian Games, who served as the youngest president of the U.S. Eventing Association when he was in his early 30s.
He pointed out, “there are probably more venues than there are horses to run in them. What you don’t want to do is have a 4-star Short every weekend and have 20 horses in each class. There had to be a way to make these classes competitive. It’s good for Areas II (NJ, Pa., Md, Del., Va., NC) and III (Tenn., SC, Miss., Ala., Ga and Fla.) that there are that many events vying for those competitions. Any that didn’t get what they wanted, or an FEI event, certainly should continue to run their national event.”
In 2023 at the Horse Park of New Jersey, where Jersey Fresh has been the headline competition since 2003, the facility’s national-level offerings will include a group of divisions from Beginner Novice through Intermediate, headed by an Advanced horse trials the weekend of June 17.
“As time goes on,” Mike said, “there will be adjustments and changes that can be looked at as new events come along and older events improve. If an event that has been awarded the contract does not fulfill their obligations or quality is not as promised, they could be changed out.”
Being awarded a date “is not a guarantee. You have to fulfill your obligations,” whether it’s prize money or the footing or anything else, Mike emphasized, saying an event could lose its privilege and its date could be re-opened for bidding.
As an example, he cited the Foxhall event outside of Atlanta, which was a national championship that debuted in 2000 and once vied with Britain’s Badminton as the world’s richest event. It disappeared five years later, with organizers citing lack of a spectator base to keep it going.
“Anything can happen,” said Mike.
“Ultimately, we’ll be ready for whatever comes down.”
The most discussion was about the length of time selected for the events to run on the basis of the group’s decision, with some wanting more and others wanting less than five years, Mike said. But five years was selected “because an event is going to make investments…they don’t want to do that if they think in a year or two they are going to lose it.”
Interestingly, the new TerraNova facility in Myakka City, Fla., east of Bradenton and Sarasota, Fla., never ran a horse trials before it was awarded a 4-star Short, which debuted this weekend with 16 entries.
Asked how TerraNova got the okay without a track record, Mike said, “they have a proven team,” mentioning course designer Mark Phillips and Shelley Howerton Page.
Leslie Law and Lady Chatterley won the 4-star Short this weekend at TerraNova, the newest competition on the eventing calendar. (Al Green Photo)
There was, Mike explained, “a lot of stock put into that. They had a proven team that showed they could get things done.”
MaryAnn Musal, a show jumper who lives near TerraNova but never visited until this weekend, said, “it is obvious no expense was spared for the welfare of the horses, or for the competitor and spectator experience. The attention to detail right down to the temporary bathrooms, shuttles for spectators from the parking area and unbelievable footing for the horses was amazing. I can’t wait to attend a jumper show at that venue.”
Mike commented that one problem involves the fact that there’s no regulation on how big classes have to be.
“One event runs an advanced class with 35 to 40 horses in it, that’s what coaches want to see, they want to see those riders go head to head.”
But if another event splits the division, when a rider in one section is touting the fact that he got fifth place, realistically he probably would have finished lower if the event had not been split.
“It happens at all levels because local horse trials want people to come back to their event and people want a ribbon. It’s an odd mindset, but it’s an American mindset. We see this in schools where everyone gets a trophy and no one is a loser.”
The idea of the calendar change is to get bigger classes and push people so they are not satisfied with third place.
“This is why the amount of competitions, whether they be Short or Long, is being controlled for a reason. We want these people to compete head to head. That’s what it’s all about; that’s what’s going to make them better and make those competitions healthier, because they have a full complement of entries as a result of, fewer but better-attended competitions.
“Jersey will be running an Advanced Horse Trials and should take pride in that and make that better,” continued Mike, noting with that perspective, Jersey “could eventually slot into going back into the FEI category, if that’s what they support.”
